Gundam Retal
GM III
Beware the powers of a newtype...
Posts: 857
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Post by Gundam Retal on Mar 8, 2004 14:55:51 GMT -5
Same deal here man. But anyway. You're wrong about a little thing called "inertia", Steel. The more massive something is and the faster it's moving, the more force it takes to stop and redirect it. *Retal pulls up into the battlefield in an Eclipse-class Star Destroyer* True, but all ships thrusters are designed to counter the ship's inertia. Given enough time, the ship would move in another direction. Big ships don't turn on a dime, but they still turn.
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Post by NeoEllis on Mar 8, 2004 14:58:54 GMT -5
Um... do you mean constant acceleration?
EDIT: True, but remember that Steel was talking about a small amount of thrust.
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Post by Steel on Mar 8, 2004 14:59:30 GMT -5
*Retal pulls up into the battlefield in an Eclipse-class Star Destroyer* True, but all ships thrusters are designed to counter the ship's inertia. Given enough time, the ship would move in another direction. Big ships don't turn on a dime, but they still turn. Exactly my point, and I would be still far enough to be able to avoid those shorts fired at me. The Halcyon Class cruiser is pretty manouverable considering it's size. EDIT: Yes, Ellis, that is what I am talking about. EDIT2: No ellis, I was talking about larger amounts of thrust. These ships are going to be designed with thrusters powerful enough to manouver them. It's simple logic.
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Post by Libra on Mar 9, 2004 1:30:06 GMT -5
Your ships can't turn on a dime, but my Valk can turn on a silver dollar.
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Post by Jimmy "The Doorman" Manae on Mar 9, 2004 10:15:29 GMT -5
Okay, I already pointed all these equations out in AIM, but let's try it again:
Rotational Inertia of a rod, about and end and middle, respectively (as his ship could basically be considered a large rod):
= mass * length / 3
= mass * length / 12
Frankly, he's a lot of inertia to overcome. That's a lot of force. Now, let's look at the change in velocity due to a rocket engine:
v = vinitial + vthrust particle * masssingle particle * ln (massinitial / massfinal)
Do you realize the implications? Let's say your ship is sixty metric tons (and consider, modern aircraft carriers are over or around this) and not moving. Firing off 500 kilos of fuel at a very generous 20 meters per second and one gram per particle, the speed changes to:
v = 0 + 20 * .001 * ln (12000 / 11500) = .00085 meters per second. Shit, we are motoring. It's not often we cruise this fast on the highway, I mean .00306 kmph is sure to get you a speeding ticket.
Now, to be a little bit more accurate, I think we need to use the rotational inertias before and after in place of total mass, but I'm not completely sure about this, and you should be able to see it doesn't make much of a difference.
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Gundam Retal
GM III
Beware the powers of a newtype...
Posts: 857
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Post by Gundam Retal on Mar 9, 2004 12:46:17 GMT -5
Okay, I already pointed all these equations out in AIM, but let's try it again: Rotational Inertia of a rod, about and end and middle, respectively (as his ship could basically be considered a large rod): = mass * length / 3 = mass * length / 12 Frankly, he's a lot of inertia to overcome. That's a lot of force. Now, let's look at the change in velocity due to a rocket engine: v = v initial + v thrust particle * mass single particle * ln (mass initial[/b] / mass final) Do you realize the implications? Let's say your ship is sixty metric tons (and consider, modern aircraft carriers are over or around this) and not moving. Firing off 500 kilos of fuel at a very generous 20 meters per second and one gram per particle, the speed changes to: v = 0 + 20 * .001 * ln (12000 / 11500) = .00085 meters per second. Shit, we are motoring. It's not often we cruise this fast on the highway, I mean .00306 kmph is sure to get you a speeding ticket. Now, to be a little bit more accurate, I think we need to use the rotational inertias before and after in place of total mass, but I'm not completely sure about this, and you should be able to see it doesn't make much of a difference.[/quote] One problem: You are assuming their stats. They aren't written in stone, and as said before, if the ship had thrusters at all, they WILL compensate for the ship's mass and inertia. Even at speed.
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Post by Jimmy "The Doorman" Manae on Mar 10, 2004 13:15:22 GMT -5
What are you trying to say? He's gonna lose half his mass every time he wants to turn? Thrusters will compensate and move a ship, but not very fast and not to any great speed. Or wait, is it going to defy conservation laws and somehow change its dimensions and mass for the duration of the spin? Face it, if it's as heavily armored and huge as he mentions, it isn't going to be light. Manouvering these large vessels is slow. EDIT: Do note, though, that I can't remember that equation perfectly off the top of my head. That may be slightly wrong. Particularly, I'm not sure that mass of one particle of propelant belongs there or not, but I'm fairly sure. Also, I missed a zero. Should be ln ( 120000 / 119500). Therefore, the speed goes to either .0000835 or .0835, with or without the mass propelant respectively.
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Post by Steel on Mar 10, 2004 13:48:41 GMT -5
Like I said at the start, on the first post, the ship is relatively small compared to other ships.
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Post by Steel on Mar 12, 2004 11:26:27 GMT -5
Ah....just as a note, that the Halcyon class cruiser is no longer if not shorter than your vessel Manae.
EDIT: Oh, ALSO! Your ideas are flawed. Because if you say my vessel cannot use its thrusters to move good enough, then yours cant either. This is because the rotation of your chemical rocket engine turns like a rudder, which you said on AIM.
The moving of the rocket would be in-effective, as the ship is too large to do so, and so, it will travel in the same direction and only point in a differant direction.
To actually then move your ship, it would require thrusters, which you were claiming would be non-effective, which means you were contradicting youtself. So, you just said to yourself that you cant manouver when you claimed I couldnt.
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Post by NeoEllis on Mar 13, 2004 23:48:10 GMT -5
Well, no matter how you cut it now Steel, you gave up. If no one minds, I'll send this thread to the archives.
Winner: Manae
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